Kyle Ross
NEW YORK — Trea Turner fielded what appeared to be a routine double-play ball in the bottom of the third inning of Game 4 of the NLDS, but gave Bryson Stott a suboptimal flip at second base that he had to clean up to complete the twin killing.
Turner's poor flip could have been costly if someone other than J.D. Martinez was running to first base for the Mets. It's the type of play that would be seen as just a blip on the radar if it came from a shortstop who had otherwise been sure-handed. But Turner's struggles defensively since joining the Phillies in 2023 have been well-documented.
Still, Turner — who has nine remaining seasons on his 11-year/$300 million contract — remains confident that his long-term future is at shortstop. He believes in the second half of the season, he turned a corner defensively.
"Yeah, for sure," Turner said. "I feel like early on I was kinda bad again. But, I think the second half of the year, I really played some good defense. I just felt more confident. I felt better throwing the ball. I felt like I made better decisions.
"You know, I made a couple errors here and there in the second half, but I just feel like overall I was making plays that I didn't make before," Turner added. "Going back to last year and trying to kinda process what [infield coach] Bobby [Dickerson] was trying to teach me and trying to work on that, I think in the second half, that was starting to click a little bit. I was starting to be more reactionary than thinking about what to do in what situation and what not."
Since joining the Phillies, Turner has -26 defensive runs saved and -8 outs above average at shortstop.
Over that two-year period, Turner's -26 defensive runs saved are tied with Jose Altuve and JJ Bleday for the worst mark among defenders at any position, per FanGraphs. The next closest shortstop is Amed Rosario, who has -17 DRS for three different teams over that stretch.
Turner's -8 outs above average don't paint quite as dire of a picture, but it's still tied for fifth-worst among shortstops since the start of the 2023 campaign.
Not technically an error by Trea Turner, but common sense will score it that way. pic.twitter.com/RCwDsBGaLT
From a more traditional perspective, Turner has a .960 fielding percentage in two seasons with the Phillies. Only Elly De La Cruz is worse in that category at .954. Among qualified shortstops, Turner is third in throwing errors (18), and second in both fielding errors (22) and total errors (40) over the last two seasons.
The Phillies watched Turner for years on the division-rival Washington Nationals, and didn't sign him expecting that he would be peak Jimmy Rollins at shortstop.
But in the two seasons prior to hitting free agency, Turner posted zero defensive runs saved and zero outs above average at shortstop in time split between the Nationals and Los Angeles Dodgers. He made 27 errors. None of those numbers will put you in the running for a Gold Glove Award, but they are more than passable for someone with Turner's offensive prowess. The Phillies, to this point, haven't gotten that proficient version of Turner in the field on a consistent basis.
The aforementioned Dickerson is well-regarded as an infield coach. Alec Bohm has taken massive steps forward defensively at third base under Dickerson, while both Bryson Stott (second base) and Bryce Harper (first base) have thrived at positions other than the ones they came up playing. So this doesn't seem to be an issue related to the Phillies.
For his part, Turner said he's received positive feedback from Dickerson in the second half of the season for his growth in the field, and that he purposely has stayed away from looking at defensive metrics.
"I feel good going forward. I feel like, like I said, I made some strides and I feel confident. I feel like the second half was pretty good," Turner said.
"I don't know the numbers. I think I talked to you about that maybe a month or so ago. I don't know the actual numbers. I think Bobby tried telling me one day and I said 'I don't wanna hear it, because I don't wanna know.' He said that I've been playing better defense, and I felt that way."
It will be interesting in the coming days when president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski and manager Rob Thomson do their year-end press conferences to see if they are in agreement on Turner's second-half growth in the field and plan to move forward with him at shortstop for 2025. If not, a conversation would obviously need to be had with Turner.
At 31, it's hard to imagine Turner — someone who had a hamstring injury this year and is so predicated offensively on his athleticism — moving to the outfield. The Nationals tried him in center field back in 2016. There's a reason he didn't stick there. It's safe to assume he wouldn't be better at that spot in his early-30s than he was in his early-20s.
🚨CHANGE 115🚨
6/25 @Phillies at @tigers
B5 Ryan Kreidler reaches on a fielder's choice, with Justyn-Henry Malloy safe at third on a fielding error by shortstop Trea Turner, instead of an infield single. As a result, two of the runs in the inning are unearned to Ranger Suarez… pic.twitter.com/pVpJhtZetv
But Turner did play second base a bit early in his career with the Nationals, and then more extensively when the Dodgers traded for him in 2021 and still had Corey Seager at shortstop. Turner views himself as a shortstop, but he had three defensive runs saved and two outs above average at second base in 436 2/3 innings at the position in 2021. He would immediately be one of the top hitting second basemen if he moved to that spot on a full-time basis.
It's unclear what that would mean for Stott, because it's hard to know exactly where the Phillies stand on the former first-round pick. Stott disappointed at the plate in 2024, hitting just .245 with a .671 OPS. He's probably better than that, and is still only 27. Stott is a natural shortstop, although he was a Gold Glove finalist at second base a year ago and has -6 DRS and -4 OAA in his career at shortstop. Clearly, he is more valuable as a second baseman than a shortstop.
But might the Phillies be a better team in 2025 with Turner at second base and some combination of Stott and Edmundo Sosa at shortstop? It's a conversation worth having, at the very least. Turner may feel like he improved defensively in the second half, but there have been far too many misplays at shortstop over his first two years in red pinstripes.
